Curse

samcobra · May 01, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Strobo, take a look at pre-factions necromancers in gvg. Look at their elites. There were pretty much 2 options-taint and OoB.

Anyway, the point is... you need to learn how to manage your energy. Arenanet believes in making this game easier for bad players by adding primaries with energy management as primary attributes. If you look at every single class with energy management primary attributes, there have been balance issues. This is because any profession/build that allows you to play without having to watch your energy requires very little to no skill. Due to this, these professions become imbalanced and require heavy nerfs to other skill attribute lines and even nerfs to primary attributes to keep them in line. This has happened with every such class, from ranger expertise, to dervish mysticism to paragon leadership. The only one which I can think of which has been relatively unaffected by having an energy management primary attribute is the assassin.

That being said, I'll move to soul reaping as a skill attribute. In prophecies, soul reaping was somewhat balanced by the fact that it had no skills in it. However, with factions, they came out with things like Icy Veins and Wail of Doom. ANet wants to move towards the idea of speccing into a primary attribute not so much for the inherent benefit, but the skills--> eg. strength, e-storage
Now, with NF, they have crazy imba shit like Reaper's Mark in SR, not to mention the inherent imbalance that SR has had since the days of QZ bspike and oath spammers in IWAY. What they're finally doing is realizing that hexing takes little skill due to the fact that you pretty much tab around and press buttons until everyone has a little purple arrow next to their name. Honestly, the creation of SoLS allowed a more varied number of necro hex builds, allowing for other elites to take the place of the once-great OoB. Where in most classes, energy management is a heavy consideration, necromancers previously only had to deal with it in pvp, and since there wasn't a plethora of dying things there, it wasn't that big of a deal. However, with the advent of rit spirits, and the newfound potency of the necromancer due to its many skill buffs, they're rediculously overpowered, even WITH the nerf to SR.

ZenRgy · May 01, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Yes, we had infinite amount of energy, but I think that was for compensation for a lack of skills available.

The nerf came about because of Reaper's Mark and Signet of Lost Souls, since both are linked to Soul Reaping, and both give energy back. So getting obscene amounts of energy from SR + RM + SoLS, that it just too much (you hit your max and then sum for energy).

Actually the nerf came aroudn because a N/Rt and N/Mo with their elites usually as Weapon of Remedy / Healer's boon could easily outperform any monk if there were a healthy amount of ritualist spirits around that were dying at a steady pace giving the N/Rt and N/Mo infinite energy.

Str0b0 · May 01, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

Anyway, the point is... you need to learn how to manage your energy.

First off thank you for the polite and dignified response. I appreciate that. I trimmed down your post to just this one sentence because I think, therein, lies our difference of opinion. Call me lazy if you wish, I am to a certain extent, but I'd infinitely prefer not to have to monitor enemy health bars and take up another skill slot for e management if I don't have to. I have, in fact, learned to manage my energy around the SR nerf simply by altering my casting timing slightly to insure that I have more deaths spacing out to accomodate the 5 second timer rather than having mass enemy deaths and essentially wasting my SR. My solution is no less valid and for me is much easier to do with my play style. Now for someone that wants to do more hands on management of energy then perhaps SoLS is the way to go but for me it's simply not very effective because I honestly do not pay that much attention to the enemy status. If they die I'm happy. If I see little yellow numbers consistently popping up I'm happy.

nightblade097 · May 02, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Honestly, I haven't noticed that horrible of a change (I'm SS btw) although it did help to change some skills (namely remove arcane echo) but other than that, it's not like it is the death of the Necro or anything. I can easily do hard mode and all areas (well, almost all, there are some areas I haven't reached yet =P) with or without this "nerf." Like one of the posters mentioned, you simply have to adjust. Although I sometimes still waste some energy when I kill mass mobs between the 5 secs, I rarely need that much anyway, as I usually try to keep most of my skills preferably below 15 energy cost.

While they may have *diminished* the power of soul reaping, ANet did not nerf SR or the Necro IMO. As others have said, it simply made the game more balanced.

PS - if u want to know my build, so u can test it for yourself, feel free to pm me in game or here, IGN Death Aisle

pingu666 · May 04, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

sols is pretty sweet really, and remmber even if u misscast, you dont lose anything... unlike most mesmer stuff

Firebert010 · May 29, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Honestly, it's a big change, but I see PvE necros getting over it quickly.

I myself have just come back from about a year's break, and after playing my necro, i noticed the change straightaway. But, as most other necros are, I find myself componsating for it. The old version of soul reaping was godly in comparison to the nerfed one, but it was too powerful. After all, it's called soul reaping, not soul raping...

The idea of minions giving no, or half, energy is better, but it will still never compare to whet soul reaping once was...

In my opinion:
Minions = Half energy, no time limit
Enemies = Full energy, no time limit
Spirits = Nothing, ever.. They're not technically living i guess anyway...

Well, there's my 6 cents on the subject

Johnbob · Jun 18, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

I'v just started to play on my necro for real after the update (even though i'v only just made it to borlis pass) and so far, soul reaping post-update seems fair enough to me. I havent had the chance to play as a proper mm yet and am currently having to rely mainly on curses, but even at that energy isnt really much of a problem, it just means i can't spam high-cost skills.
I find it hard to imagine that anyone playing as a necro would *ever* have *any* energy problems in pve *before* the update, especially when you bring minions and spirits into account.
Worst case scenario i can imagine for the modern-day necro now is the same as every other class - equiping the right energy-cost combination of skills and generally not burning out all their energy too soon... aka energy management

Soul Reaping still seems effective, especially when you compare it to other primary attributes such as
fast casting (ok, so its good for interupts but not much else)
or strength (...which needs a boost imo, i dont even notice any dmg increase with a higher strength while using skills than what it would be with low strength, and even then this supposed dmg increase only works while your using attack skills-the worst primary att. imo)

Nadula · Jun 20, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Reading through this thread I see a lot of unhappy people, but I'm afraid I'm fine with the change (It's not like me to agree with "the establishment").

I've played GW for a looooong time and I can notice the difference having picked up my 1 year old necro again to play PvE.
Necro is one of my fave professions and way back when I made my first nooby level1 necro I found it so easy to play once I got a few neat skills.

Now after the update it needs thought and careful planning which I find tougher to get used to but I like the need to think. Maybe my builds need to be adjusted to include an energy management skill cos before I didn't need it. Before the change I was loving the SR advantages as whenever I was being mobbed I would never run low on energy.

Now for the first time I actaully need to THINK about energy management, gone are the days of just spamming skills like they're going out of fashion which I think is fantastic. Maybe this'll balance things out in AB too (for those that still play) but I've not been in there for a while with necro.

All in all, the "nerf" is annoying like with any change that makes things harder. BUT I think I'm good enough to work with the change rather than just complain that things got harder.

I will grant those of you that doubt, that ANet may not be listening to us on everything but if if they did the game would be a mess if we all had our own way.

Nightmare Venom · Jun 21, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

I was a bit annoyed about the soul reaping update when it first came into play. I play on my necro a lot as either MM, SS or even Orders depending on what I need and where I am. But know I don't really notice the soul reaping update anymore.

I can still play MM or SS without any problems. I'm having a few teething problems when it comes to playing Orders, but I don't play it as often as I used to so that is understandable.

When I play MM, I can still have 10 minions up without any problems, even when I alter my build because I want a change from what minions I am summoning. e.g. I change vampiric horrors to bone fiends and bone horror to shambling horrors. But right now I'm just concentrating on the minions that can sort of become a wall: shamblings, vampirics, bone horrors and the flesh golem.

If I know that I'm going to need a boost of energy depending where I am, I usually like to take the Cultist henchman or one of my heroes with br in his skill bar. They help me out a bit when I need a boost in energy and I've already done a spot of soul reaping, and I still need some more energy.

FalconDance · Jun 25, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I had my necro out nearly all day yesterday for the first time in months. A few observations:

Since she doesn't have Flesh Golem (just haven't capped it), no PuG will take her even though she's run as a MM for nearly a year now. Seems odd to me to denigrate a character for just one skill regardless of the other seven, but *shrugs* their loss.

Switched to all Curses since I've tinkered with them before and it was fun. (Oops, did I use the ultimate dirty word? FUN ) Capped Reaper's Mark just because. Set a skillbar, hired some henches, drug the heros out of the taverns, and off we went. We cleared at least a third of the Elonan mainland with quests, missions and miscellaneous romping.

Very little to no problem with energy management at all! In fact, I often was totally unable to use the energy boost because I was at full already. Hmmmm, surely that can't be right - I mean how many people here ballyhoo about the SR "nerf" and how it makes it impossible to be effective and efficient and omgthey'vetotallyruinedthenecro,thebastards!. Clearly I was doing something wrong since, in over twelve hours of play, I could count on one hand the times I was too low on energy to cast a hex (which immediately cleared itself).

(I did go with a PuG for one mission and, again, no trouble with energy whatsoever.)

Mali will be visiting the Iron Mines this week to cap Life Transfer and SS to add to her repetoire of necro nastiness. I've used both before (on a monk, oddly enough) with great success. I expect to do the same with a full necro. Will it affect her energy management? Yep, for about three minutes while I learn the new skillbar.

So, personal observation from a PvE standpoint only, I noticed no negative effect of the supposed "nerf" of Soul Reaping. With judicious (read: intelligent) use of Reaper's Mark and Signet of Lost Souls - Both SR skills, mind you, fancy that! - there was NO reduction in readilly available evergy from which to draw for battle. And yes, the foe fell very quickly with up to ~ +13/14 degen (three degen hexes and Well of Silence which the Paragons really don't like) plus Necrosis and a couple other one-shot damage skills).

Edit: I do not understand all the grief about Reaper's Mark being a Soul Reaping hex. Granted, it could as easily go into the Curses line, I suppose. But uber damage isn't the be-all and end-all, remember. Degen softens the foe so the warriors can more easily and swiftly dispatch them

. Of course, there are those warriors who get upset when they look up to see the foe lying at their feet without a single sword thrust, axe rake or hammer bash .........

~Falcon

GeniusLoci · Jun 26, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

[sarcasm]Or maybe, since GW1 is dying, this is merely rigor-mortis, and Anet's flailing around making a mess of itself before someone Animates it, and makes it useful again for a short time, before it dies from degen.[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]May be people should work with numbers and stop counting only a few hundred active member's opinion in some forum before they start making such statements or assumptions[/sarcasm]. GW is far from dying. In fact I had a hard time to find NF where I live as it was out of stock. Shocking, isn't it?

- As I don't see Olias to have problems with MMing, I believe there is no problems with his SR. Actually he runs Signet of Lost Souls and the mesmer's inspiration signet (for only 5 en from the later), one or two Curse line spells two summons, a Minion heal and res signet. He always have like 9 or 10 minions (with monks help, he lacks the desire to heal them often and I forget to click on his skill). I don't see him running out of energy all the time.
- Many people say that now they cannot spam Curses, for example. I never though there should be such thing like spamming 10~15 e spells like mad. Looks like you haven't been monkin' to me

- I know what it was to get constant stream of energy but I don't think it was fair to Monks and Mesmers (even if the later have good energy management they do something like <begins casting-cast-cast-cast-end of energy pool> in two seconds). And then they have to regain somehow. While necros just got better with every death on the field.
- Someone said Eles have better management. Yeah, it was why my Olias used Glyph of Lesser Energy before I equiped him with an interrupt. Cheap and very efficient. But if you run Ele using ee skills you will have as much downtime in though fights as any other caster which is used to maintain your energy. Again the monk came into my mind as they don't have the time for downtime...

FalconDance
Flesh Golem? I mean ...just say "yeah, I have it" and leave the discussion for how is FG not any better than something else to some more open minded people that those in random PUG.

FalconDance · Jun 26, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Took Mali (still set for full Curses) to Tyria yesterday. Fought half way down Lornar's with only 3 heroes only to discover that she was seemed particularly vulnerable to those *(^*%&(!) ice imps and their cold hexes. Secured a run from a terrific and fast Dervish 'sin to Drok's for a modest fee. Of course, most of the fun of the day was 'sitting' in Beacon's and listening to the myriad of "NEED a runner to Droks!" and "Can ne1 run me to Dorks for 173g?" Seriously.

PuGed for Ice Cave of Sorrows - full Curses. Only party member to fall was a lvl 17 MM who levelled to 18 at mission end. Curses fully functional, efficient (got a thank you pm from the party leader for my help

). Energy management a-okay. Unfortunately, the foe fell quickly to our team so the mission was exceedingly boring from that standpoint.

Why would you spam Curses? Degen hexes have a duration, people. They're not one-shot wonders in their uber damage output - they're slow and painful death <evil grin>. Set your Curses/hexes on one or more foe, rinse and repeat.

Energy management, not a problem. Most of the time, fully topped up with no place to put the bonus from SR. Maybe I should go cap the fleshie just to see how much SR grief a MM must go through ...... not. Actually I was thinking of going all Wells but then I'd get all those poor MMs tied into knots for "stealing" thier corpses that they supposedly can't use so efficiently anymore because they're drained dry of energy...........

Catch-22 these days.

~Falcon

dicecube · Jul 10, 2007, 07:23 AM // 07:23

I love playing my necro in PvE, first class that i'm actually 100% comfortable playing with.

Fuzzy Taco · Jul 10, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

the soul reaping changes were necessary. that's it. everyone knows that the necro could run with as little as 6 SR and be totally topped off on energy after a big fight. i remember 55 necro-ing trolls. i would spam my stuff into oblivion, then when they dropped i'd be back up to 52 energy again.
rinse, repeat.
the truth is, now necros need to think about energy management. all my build work perfectly with some inspiration points and Power Drain. we just got balance'd.